Joker 2 Has An Impossible Batman Problem

 

With a number of new characters in Joker: Folie à Deux, Todd Phillips' 2024 sequel will find it very difficult to keep ignoring Batman. 2019's Joker introduced audiences to a darker, grittier, and more grounded version of the DC Universe, set outside the franchise's main continuity and debuting a more realistic and troubled version of the titular villain. Joaquin Phoenix's portrayal of Arthur Fleck, a.k.a. the Joker, earned him critical acclaim, making his portrayal of Arthur Fleck alongside the rest Joker: Folie à Deux cast incredibly exciting, including Lady Gaga as Harley Quinn.

Set in 1981, Joker introduced a new take on the origin story of one of DC Comics' most iconic and recognizable villains. Joker saw Arthur Fleck become the titular villain years before Bruce Wayne would find his calling as Batman, with the film even showing Arthur interacting with a young Bruce Wayne while featuring the deaths of Bruce's parents towards the end of the movie. Assuming Joker: Folie à Deux picks up soon after Joker's ending, Gotham City would still be without its Batman. This could pose a problem for the film, as more Batman-related characters are introduced.

Joker 2 Will Really Struggle To Ignore Batman

2019's Joker focused on Arthur Fleck's descent into darkness to become the Joker. The fact that Batman was missing from the film wasn't so jarring, particularly since a lot of Arthur's anger was directed at Bruce's father, Thomas Wayne. However, there was confusion regarding whether Arthur Fleck would be the official Joker, as he would be an aging man by the time Bruce Wayne finally donned the cape and cowl

Joker: Folie à Deux expects to see Arthur fully embrace his new identity, as well as strike up a relationship with Lady Gaga's Harley Quinn. This story is thus set to begin the infamous partnership that has faced Batman several times in DC's history, making his absence all the more glaring.

To add fuel to the fire, it was revealed in May 2023 that Harvey Dent will appear in Joker: Folie à Deux, adding another villain from Batman's gallery in DC Comics. Dent is intrinsically connected to Bruce Wayne and Batman, being seen to be a close personal friend to Bruce Wayne and Jim Gordon. It's hard to imagine Harvey Dent appearing without there being a mention of Batman himself, but it certainly is the case with Joker: Folie à Deux. Where Joker perhaps made a point of debuting the Joker without Batman, it will be much harder to ignore this time around.

Joker 2 Including Batman Is Also A Major Challenge

There are a few challenges present that make it virtually impossible for Joker: Folie à Deux to include Batman in any capacity. Robert Pattinson is set to continue playing the character in the upcoming The Batman: Part II and beyond, while a new actor will assume the role for James Gunn's DCU, debuting in The Brave and the Bold. This means that introducing yet another version of Batman in the Joker franchise could definitely over-saturate the character. There is also one massive problem Joker: Folie à Deux has to contend with.

        " Unless there is a time jump at some point in the film, or an epilogue, it's virtually impossible for Batman to appear."

The fact that Bruce Wayne was only a child in 2019's Joker suggests that his transformation into Batman is still a number of years away. The Joker, Harley Quinn, and now Harvey Dent have all been introduced to the franchise as adults while Bruce Wayne is still young. It's difficult to imagine any of these characters entering into battle with Bruce Wayne in the future when he is finally old enough to put on the cowl.

Joker: Folie à Deux takes place soon after the first film, revolving around Arthur Fleck in Arkham Asylum and eventually being put on trial for the crimes he committed as Joker. Unless there is a time jump at some point in the film, or an epilogue, it's virtually impossible for Batman to appear.

How Joker 2 Can Overcome Its Batman Problem

One of the most entertaining qualities of Joker was the fact that Arthur Fleck himself was an unreliable narrator, with much of the story - most notably his relationship with Zazie Beetz's Sophie Dumond - being completely fabricated. Joker: Folie à Deux could lean into this further, by showing Joker increasingly obsessed over his questionable familial ties to Bruce Wayne. Though, it's still unclear whether Thomas Wayne was his secret biological father, or something his mother just believed to be true.

With Joker: Folie à Deux's musical sections possibly being in Arthur's head, his hallucinations will seemingly only be growing more potent in the film. This storyline could easily feature Bruce Wayne and continue his Batman origin story without ever having the real character himself crop up in the plot. Indeed, if Joker: Folie à Deux wants to feature Batman, having a decidedly not lucid Arthur Fleck see something similar to his future superhero foe could be the best way to approach things without having to justify the child Bruce Wayne growing up too fast.

Joker: Folie a Deux's Director Explains How Arthur Would See Batman

In an interview a few weeks before Joker: Folie à Deux's release, director Todd Phillips spoke with IGN about the way Arthur would view a figure like Batman. "I think Arthur would be in awe of the alpha male that is Batman," he explained. "I think Arthur always had a fascination with men at ease... that was the one thing that Arthur could never be was a man at ease." While it might not seem like Batman is actually at ease, having Arthur view him that way could be an interesting angle to their relationship.

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            " It's a miracle that Joker: Folie à Deux was even made, given that Phillips and Phoenix were adamant on only doing one film at the beginning."

Todd Phillips did confirm that there would not be a third film following Joker: Folie à Deux, but brought up interest in someone else exploring an older Bruce Wayne at some point. "If he's 12 or 11 there and okay 15 years later becoming Batman in that world. Yeah, I think that'd be really interesting." Fans will have to settle for another film about the Joker that doesn't include Batman, but there is still a lot Joker: Folie à Deux has going for it outside that aspect.